For the Americans who feel—justifiably—that they’re excluded from participating in elections, what can be done to help them claim their place at democracy’s table? Meet three activists from Dayton, Ohio, who’ve found a way. With a high-stakes midterm election right around the corner, we’re highlighting the work of local community members who’ve been thinking about and working on election engagement for years. Host Alex Lovit is joined by Destiny Brown, Robert Mackey II, and Kevin O’Donnell, all of whom have been working to educate and empower voters in the Kettering Foundation’s hometown of Dayton, Ohio. All three of them are Dayton Democracy Fellows. The fellowship supports and connects everyday people who are dreaming big dreams about what we can be together when we are brave, creative, and steadfast. Learn more about the fellowship here: https://kettering.org/?fellowship=dayton-democracy-fellowship Destiny Brown is a community organizer and joined the Kettering Foundation as a program associate for Democracy and Community in June 2026. She was part of the Dayton Democracy Fellows cohort in 2024. Robert Mackey II is an author, youth advocate, and program coordinator at Sunlight Village, a nonprofit focused on the mental health and well-being of underserved youth in Dayton. He was selected as a Dayton Democracy Fellow in 2025. Kevin O’Donnell is a social studies teacher at Dayton Public Schools and coordinator with Bilingual Nation, a language learning co-op. He was selected as a Dayton Democracy Fellow in 2025. Check out Robert’s new book here: https://www.steadfastlifestylesinc.org/post/welcome-to-steadfast-lifestyles Sunlight Village is holding a fundraising gala in November. Tickets are available here: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/sunlightvillageinc1/2307275 The Youth Voter Guide that Kevin’s students created is available here: https://www.promotethevoteohio.com/ *Get Tickets to our live show!* October 19 at the Howard Theatre in Washington, DC. Featuring Kettering Senior Fellow Rev. Dr. William J. Barber II. https://www.unionstagepresents.com/shows/this-day-live-the-next-realignment-presented-by-the-charles-f-kettering-foundation-19-oct
Alex Lovit:
Hey there, listeners. Alex Lovit here. Just jumping in with a reminder that we’re doing a live show in Washington, DC. It’s on Monday, October 19, at the Howard Theatre. All three hosts of the This Day podcast will be on stage, along with yours truly. And our special guest is Kettering senior fellow, the Reverend Doctor William Barber, II. There’s a link in the show notes to buy tickets. Okay, now on with the show
Robert Mackey, II:
The people that we've been bringing in on the room, you would never see these people involved with voting, with birthing voters. It's like awaking a sleeping giant.
Alex Lovit:
Last year, the Kettering Foundation's hometown of Dayton, Ohio held an election for mayor and city commission. There were multiple candidates representing different visions for the city. And it was close. The mayoral race was decided by less than 600 votes. But in that election, with policies at stake that would have real impacts on people's lives, only about 16% of eligible voters cast a ballot, which is a huge problem.
You can't be an inclusive democracy when 84% of voices aren't included. And that's not just how things are in Dayton. That's actually a pretty normal turnout for municipal elections across the United States. And not everyone participates at the same rates. Wealthier citizens with advanced degrees are much more likely to vote, while people from underserved communities tend to face more barriers. Every election year, there are endless think pieces about what to do about all this. Big ideas get shared, big money gets spent, and the day after the election, most of us forget all about it until next time.
But not everyone. Around the country in most cities, there are people working to engage non-voters. Today, we're going to hear from people who don't tune out and move on, and what they're doing to bring more people to democracy's table. You're listening to The Context. It's a show from the Charles F. Kettering Foundation about how to get democracy to work for everyone and why that's so hard to do.
I'm your host, Alex Lovit. My three guests today are all from here in Dayton, and they're all working in our community to promote voter education and participation. They're also all Kettering Foundation Dayton Democracy Fellows. Every year we bring together 15 extraordinary everyday people, people who are dreaming big and transforming their communities. I'm so glad to highlight some of their achievements on our show.
Kevin O'Donnell, Robert Mackey, and Destiny Brown, thanks to all three of you for being here today. First off, let me ask you to just say a few words about who you are and what you do here in Dayton. Kevin, let's start with you.
Kevin O'Donnell:
My name is Kevin O'Donnell. I'm a social studies teacher at Meadowdale Career Tech in Dayton Public Schools where we produce the Youth Voter Guide. And outside of that, I coordinate Bilingual Nation, which is a language learning co-op here in Dayton.
Alex Lovit:
All right. And Robert?
Robert Mackey, II:
I'm Robert Mackey. I'm an Arthur program coordinator for Sunlight Village, the local nonprofit that's focused on the mental health and wellbeing of our most underserved youth.
Alex Lovit:
And Destiny, how about you?
Destiny Brown:
I'm Destiny Brown. I'm a program associate with the Kettering Foundation in the democracy and community focus area. Prior to this role, I coordinated voting efforts and community organizing efforts with community members in US states.
Alex Lovit:
So the four of us, I think, all live in the city of Dayton, Ohio. We're here to talk about the work that you all have been involved in in elections, in trying to increase voter turnout, in trying to get people educated about their choices. And I think one way to get into this is to think about who doesn't vote.
Nationally, about a third of American adults don't vote. About a quarter of American adults aren't even registered to vote. In Dayton, those numbers are lower. In 2024, turnout nationally was about 65%. In Dayton, it was about 42%. And I don't want to shame people for not voting. There's all kinds of reasons people don't vote and we don't make it easy in this country necessarily. But as you think about that, who isn't voting and why?
Robert Mackey, II:
A lot of people from my community are not voting. They don't see the point. They don't think that anyone cares. It's just the poverty. They don't see how voting will put a meal on their table or help them with the many things if they're struggling. And that's why the work that Destiny has been doing, I've been doing, Kevin's doing, is so crucial because the voter education that Destiny did, that we did at Sunlight Village, it was a room full of people that you would probably never get to the polls, that's going to be at the polls.
Destiny Brown:
I would agree. I do think that there's so many communities and people who just don't see the value on voting. And the decision to prioritize voting, to cast a ballot on issues impact their neighborhood or their day-to-day life.
Kevin O'Donnell:
I think Robert and Destiny hit the nail on the head. The thing that I would add is that in Montgomery County where we are, 75% of people who vote don't belong to either party. And so I think that the partisanship is also driving people away. The fact that we see rule by elites, regardless of who's in power, is driving people away. And it's time for us to build something for that 75% of people who don't see themselves represented in the system.
Alex Lovit:
Well, Kevin, you're getting at what my next question there is, what motivated you to get involved in this work?
Kevin O'Donnell:
Yeah. I initially ran screaming away from politics because I did that before I taught and I was so disheartened by being ruled by a popularity contest in which whoever wins that popularity contest just goes and does what they were going to do anyway. But then when I got into teaching, specifically teaching government, and we would do these model congresses in our classes and I would find, wow, 95% of the things that these students come up with are things that I would want to see come into reality.
And this we do at the beginning of the year. So it's not a result of my indoctrination or propaganda. This is just what they come into class believing we need. We need basic human services, we need transportation, we need housing, all of these things. And so I've been reinvigorated, re-excited, not by politics, but by people power.
And what I've seen is that the plan that most people have for if they were in charge is a righteous one. So it was getting a taste of what direct democracy can look like and what it could yield for us that got me excited again.
Alex Lovit:
Robert, how about you? How did you get involved in this work?
Robert Mackey, II:
The education, the lack of education. I used to be one of them people. And as I grew in my education and my knowledge and just having an understanding of how the system work and how it affects our community, I know this is where our change comes from. It's going to come from education. It's going to come from empowering our community because we can't change nothing if we're not involved. We can sit around complain and complain and complain. So that's why I got involved. And working with the youth, I strongly believe that the major change is going to come through the youth, educating the youth.
Alex Lovit:
And Destiny, as people just heard, you're a program associate here at the Kettering Foundation, but you've been involved in this work with the Kettering Foundation before you were on staff here. What was motivating you? What made you get interested in this work?
Destiny Brown:
For me, a lot of it was noticing that Dayton had two realities it seemed like, which is true, I think in a lot of parts of the country. When we talk about preaching to the choir, you have these same set of people who are always present, who are absorbing all the information, who are speaking out. But there is a whole other segment of society that is impacted by these things, but not participating or not even aware what's going on.
So I was really interested in figuring out how do we build a new choir of people? How do we expand the knowledge and expand really that pool of people who can show up at city commission, who can speak and participate in policies that are impacting their lives? To Robert's point, education is vital. And then also that we had to be honest that people have so many burdens and cares that they just don't have the bandwidth to consistently be on top of what's going on in government.
So if I can remove something off of your plate, maybe then it gives you the bandwidth to care about something else or to expand your thinking or your processing about things maybe outside of your immediate day-to-day issues.
Alex Lovit:
So if we can start at the beginning, when we're thinking about 2024, people might be aware there was an election going on that year. Destiny, I think you and other folks were concerned about participation, who was showing up for that election, who wasn't being represented in that election. So in that year, Destiny, talk to me a little bit about what the project looked like. What was Kettering doing? What were you doing to try to boost voter turnout?
Destiny Brown:
The initial project was something called Adopted Precinct. And it was using information that says that if people knew that their neighbors and people they knew were voting, then it would get them more engaged and involved. So take pictures, let's post pictures, talk about your reason to vote that could be hung in corner stores and churches and rec centers so people can see people that they know that are like, "I'm voting this year. This is my reason why I'm voting."
So it really scratched the surface of engagement for us as a tool of conversation. But once that got started, there's a really important local election was on the way for Dayton. And part of the challenges we were seeing is that people needed to be knowledgeable about the candidates. And as much as we love a lot of the organizations who are known for putting out voter guides, community members were hoping for information that really could help us differentiate between candidates.
How do we know what people were actually do as it pertains to things that matter in my neighborhood? So as an example, if I'm asking all candidates a general question about an imaginary topic, everybody's going to do a great job if I ask you what you'll do. But in comparison, if I look at what you've done and I actually put on the voter guide, the choices you've made, that's a different set of information for people to make decisions.
Alex Lovit:
In 2024, there was a presidential election. In 2025, there was a city commission and mayoral election in Dayton. And most of our audience isn't from Dayton, so we don't need to get into the particulars of it, but there was a choice. There were multiple candidates running. There was a real race and these elections are nonpartisan. So folks were going to walk into the voting booth and there's just a list of names. There's no Rs and Ds to help people identify who might align with their values. So Kevin, this was a project you worked on with your students to develop this voter guide. Talk a little bit about how that came to be and what that voter guide looked like.
Kevin O'Donnell:
Yeah, it started in 2022, and at that point it was very much like research going on to candidates' pages, trying to figure out what they're about, and then making this 22-page voter guide that nobody read. And then in 2023, we started figuring out, well, how about we just figure out what we want and then we ask the candidates whether they're going to give it to us. And then we tell people what they said. The way we start before this voter guide even begins is with the class congress, which is where the students pitch things that they want to see funded by the government. So the students act like Congress and... Actually they don't act like Congress because they speak-
Alex Lovit:
Yeah, I hope not too much.
Kevin O'Donnell:
... they speak respectfully to each other, so they don't really act like Congress. And they vote on the ideas that they want to see brought to the candidates for office. That's phase one. Phase two is we take the ideas out to the public, to their families, to their classmates to see which ideas have the most support beyond our classroom. Figure out the top 10, send those to the candidates to ask. And we just ask them simply, yes or no.
If this were presented to you today in this office, how would you vote? And then we put it into a grid so people can look at what matters to them and compare how those candidates responded side by side. So that has become the formula is show people. Come up with what we want, what the students want, see what the public thinks, send it to the candidates, see what they think, and then send that information back out to the public. Our goal is to create a guide so that government teachers across the country can replicate that same process for their city because it's very simple formula.
Alex Lovit:
Well, you say it's simple, you make it sound simple. I know a lot of work goes into this. Some of that work is in deciding what questions to ask then also involving the community. But then also there's this challenge of, okay, now you have all these responses from the candidates. How do you present this information to voters in a way that is understandable that they can really grapple with what each of these candidates stand for? Talk a little bit about how that guide was designed the way that it was.
Kevin O'Donnell:
Yeah. Destiny really brought us the grid format because our stuff was just way too long. And then she's like, "Hey, how about this very digestible thing?" And we're like, "Yeah, like that." The goal is to be able to fit it on one page. If you just let politicians talk, you will get a book and no real answers. We're interested in how you're going to vote. Anything else you'd like to add to that?
Destiny Brown:
No, I think that's it. I think the goal was just that we wanted something that with the mindset that it would be passed out, it would be distributed at polling locations at early voting. So we wanted something that people could walk in, read and understand pretty easily. And then there was a QR code. So if they needed more information of points or references, they could go for a longer set of information. But we just wanted something that people could have on the fly that was easy to understand.
Kevin O'Donnell:
And ours is cheaper too. You can print it for less than a penny at the library.
Alex Lovit:
Well, support your local library. So give me a couple of examples of what some lines on that grid were.
Destiny Brown:
Yeah. So for our local election, a few key differences between the candidates were school funding, housing, healthcare. For example, the Good Samaritan Hospital was a hospital on West State and that was closed. And some candidates voted certain ways on the topic, others voted differently. The other one was around how adding housing dollars to the local income tax for the city of Dayton.
So these were issues that community cared about, but weren't very clear. If you're not following the city commission or you're not following news articles or how the votes are laying out, you wouldn't really know how they voted. And these were issues that weren't so far up, you didn't feel like it mattered. There were issues that were like, no, that hospital isn't in my neighborhood anymore, or we don't have rental assistance. There were issues that people felt more connected to and we just presented those topics.
Alex Lovit:
What worked and what didn't work?
Destiny Brown:
Part of the challenge was there was not really a formal training of community members who were distributing the voter guides. So the people who would come distribute the guides were not actively involved in the creation or the full understanding of the voter guides. When they got asked a question that it was like, "I don't know, I'm just passing this out." And it's, that's not really the goal. We want people to be able to have conversation and understanding around it.
So it showed us the need for just more community training and education around these issues. And that's really how we evolved to where we are now, to working with Sunlight Village and Robert with the intention that this will be the set of people that will distribute the voter guides in the future.
Alex Lovit:
And Robert, this is where you come in or part of where you come in as you're helping out with these civic education projects. Talk a little about just what that program looks like. Who is in that room? What are you talking about?
Robert Mackey, II:
It's people from the community. The people that we've been bringing in the room, you would never see these people involved with voting. They come in, it's a family. It's a family affair. It's a community affair. And when they come in there and it don't feel like it's a voting, it don't feel like a training, it feel like a family reunion. It's love in the room. Everybody loving on each other. It's respect, it's conversation, it's community. And that's the most important part is just that sense of belonging and showing them that a change is possible.
Alex Lovit:
Talk to me just about what is the program? How long does it last? What are y'all talking about?
Robert Mackey, II:
Just like what Destiny said, educating them on the candidates, the different branches of government, local government, the voter registrations. How many weeks was it? Was it six weeks?
Destiny Brown:
Yeah, it was six weeks and then we ended up stretching it to eight weeks.
Robert Mackey, II:
I thought it was little longer than six weeks. It did. I was like, let me make sure.
Destiny Brown:
No, it was longer.
Robert Mackey, II:
Our location, Sunlight Village is located right in the smack of the hood. If I may say, we're right in the heart of it, in the community, in the hood. Our location is perfect because the community has access to us. Our building, the village hub that we renovating that we turn into a youth center, a community hub that will have all the wraparound services for our youth and just for the community, it's right there.
I'm talking about we're right there. We're right next to the DeSoto Bass housing projects. We're birthing voters. We're birthing voters from the DeSoto Bass that, like I say, some of them people never even left the DeSoto Bass other than maybe go to the community store. And if we had the opportunity just to show them something different, how they play a part and they matter when before they thought that they didn't matter and they didn't have a seat at the table. We've given them that seat at the table.
Destiny Brown:
One of the beautiful things and why I was really excited to work with Sunlight Village is their history and their work around mental health and juvenile justice, young people who have been involved in the justice system in some way. And something that I identify early on in working with Kettering prior to joining as a program associate was just how intimidating the voting process can feel for someone who's been engaged with the juvenile justice system or any type of criminal justice system.
So particularly for black men, if I go to do early voting at the county building, the sentiment and some of the same feels a lot like the court sometimes depending on what places in the building I'm going to. So early on when I was working with DeSoto Bass, which is this public housing community that Robert mentioned that's near Sunlight Village, a lot of the sentiment was that we can't vote, we're felons. Or I got locked up, I can't vote.
And there was this just assumed ineligibility about voting, but then there was also, I think just a little bit of a trauma or discomfort about going to the county building, going to some of these buildings that resemble a court or resemble some of the people that you deal with if you have had any of these encounters. And then just speaking personally, I had a dear family member. We went to the DMV and he didn't know he had a warrant and he got picked up at the DMV.
So if you imagine a person wanting to go do early voting and it's in the same building maybe where sheriffs are and everybody's experience with these systems are not the same. So there is a layer of challenge with working with communities and getting them to engage when there's been such a history of discriminatory practices and interactions with particularly communities of color.
So this is really the choir that my passion is to engage with is to educate and to encourage and empower them to figure out how we get engaged with the system. So to me, Robert, Sunlight Village, the story and the work that they're doing has a unique ability because of the trust that they built and the experiences that exist in that place to engage with people in a way that they feel safe and they feel like they belong.
Alex Lovit:
Well, thank you for saying that, Destiny. And I think you're talking there to some of the barriers to voting, including barriers that I think a lot of people aren't even aware of. It's not so much that people choose not to vote as they're often excluded from it. Robert, I wanted to ask you about, we've been talking about this civic education program, about the political system and about local candidates. Have you heard from folks going through that program that certain things stuck out to them as, "Oh, I didn't know this and this will help me be a more effective citizen?" Or have you learned anything from that program that stuck out to you?
Robert Mackey, II:
Man, several people. Several people spoke on that class and they want to know when it's going to start again. They want to know when is the next class? When are we doing this again? It ended too soon. That's what I'm getting.
Alex Lovit:
Eight weeks wasn't enough.
Robert Mackey, II:
Yeah, because I think it gave them, like you said, that sense of belonging, that seat at the table, that fellowship. It was more than just voting. It just seemed like something they've really been waiting on or they've been waiting to be invited. It's like awaken a sleeping giant, if you would say.
Alex Lovit:
Well, Robert, as you're talking there about the value of community building and building networks, let's talk a little bit about the Dayton Democracy Fellows program. So all of you have been Dayton Democracy Fellows here at the Kettering Foundation. Destiny, talk to us about what are the goals of that? What does that program look like?
Destiny Brown:
So the Dayton Democracy Fellows is a opportunity for Dayton community members, organizers, nonprofit leaders to come together to learn from one another over the course of three years. But it provides a space for them to dream and collaborate together on different projects, to learn from one another and be information sharing, maybe support each other's events and so forth. But it is truly just community members who are doing great work and trying to explore ways that we can really learn from the work that they're doing and convene spaces where they can work together with intention.
Alex Lovit:
Kevin, talk a little bit about your experience. What has it been like for you to be a Dayton Democracy Fellow? What have you gotten out of it?
Kevin O'Donnell:
It's been one of the highlights of the last two years. The friends that I've gotten to know from it, it might've taken years for us to all meet each other if we had just left it up to chance. But somebody had the right idea to put the right people in the room and just the amount of stuff, great projects that have come out of it, the amount of collaborations that have just come from getting us together once a month to break bread have been transformative.
Even if there wasn't the financial support behind it, just the being in the room together has been so good for all of us. I think I've gotten a chance to work with pretty much everybody in our Democracy Fellows class. I think most of them have been in my classroom. Most of them we've worked on some sort of project together.
Journalism Lab is now in helping us build a whole media outlet in the classroom. Dayton Tenant Union is like this with us on the voter guide. We're working with the statewide NAACP since one of their fellows is in our class. It's the friends we made along the way.
Alex Lovit:
Robert, did you make any friends along the way?
Robert Mackey, II:
Hey, I'm right there with Kevin. The rooms, I would've never thought that I would be in them rooms. I was one of them people that didn't think people really cared and voting mattered. I was one of them people. And since I've been with Kettering in the past two years, I'm all in. I've educated myself. Just a backstory on me, I went to prison when I was a teenager, at 17 years old, and I was sentenced to a 38-year mandatory sentence for nonviolent charges.
And I served 25 straight years in prison from 17 to 42. So just imagine I had that long gap in my life. So this is something different for me. That's why I do the work I do with the youth, because I used to be one of them youth that made a mistake. Now I could be an example that turned his life around, educated myself and be some hope for somebody else that may make a mistake or get stuck in a difficult time in their life. But this is big for me, for me to be involved and have this opportunity to be in this room and make all these amazing friends.
Alex Lovit:
Yeah. And Robert, we've been talking about the elections work here, but of course you have a life story that's much bigger than that and you do work beyond that. What else do you do besides help out with these civic education programs?
Robert Mackey, II:
I'm an author. I have a newly published book, Steadfast: The 12 Principles That Saved My Life. I talk about my story, my experience going to prison at 17 years old and how I survived that and was able to turn my life around. I'm a public speaker. I'm a youth advocate. I'm a community advocate and I'm a community developer. And I say that I'm in the business of helping build people. Most importantly, our youth.
Alex Lovit:
And so when we think about democracy, we've been talking about this very narrow version of elections focused democracy, but of course democracy is much bigger than that. And Robert and all of you are involved in a lot more than that. So Kevin, it would be enough if you just worked with these students to do these voter guides and student congresses and such, but that's not all you do. Talk a little bit about other parts of your work and how you see democracy playing into that.
Kevin O'Donnell:
When I leave Meadowdale for the day, I coordinate a program called Bilingual Nation, which is a language co-learning space that brings together Spanish learners and English learners to help each other practice. And so we've built a community of 10 teachers and about 100 learners that come together every single day of the week to help each other out. But the deeper reason behind that is because I think the language barrier is one of our biggest roadblocks for democracy.
And we really wanted to figure out how to build those connections across language. So right at this very moment, the Bilingual Nation online class is switching from reading a story to doing conversation, structured conversation. So people who have not spoken a word of Spanish are speaking their first full sentences this very moment.
Alex Lovit:
Well, that's cool. And Destiny, here you are at a democracy focused foundation, but you've been working in community for a long time. How do you think about democracy in the context of that broader work?
Destiny Brown:
I'm a firm believer that if communities are well, then everything else goes well. So the foundation of this work for me, and my background has been in community health work and as a community organizer, but fundamentally, if you are not doing well, if your concerns are overwhelming to you in your day-to-day and your overall wellbeing is not sufficient, then you are not going to engage and you're not going to be the best self. So that the focus of my work is that our communities need to be well but everything else will thrive.
Alex Lovit:
So we've been talking about the work that's been going on over the last several election cycles, the broader work that you all do. What does success look like? We're a nonpartisan foundation here. We don't have a stake in who's going to win the next election. But beyond the election outcome, what would you like to see this year that would look like success to you? And what would success look like in five or 10 years down the road?
Destiny Brown:
I'll say specifically related to this work for me is helping to build informed leaders from the historically disengaged, the traditionally cast out or disregarded population. But success to me is really building up informed leaders from the population that people often think are incapable or not eligible to participate.
Robert Mackey, II:
I'm right there with Destiny. One thing that I would like to see done in the future after election is keeping this momentum going that we have, educating our community. The eight-week program, that was a success. But that's not the win. Whatever that look like, building on that into the future, I believe that's where our success come. The leaders that Destiny was just speaking out is going to come out of them meetings, them trainings, them cohorts. That's where we're going to grow the leaders at in the community.
Kevin O'Donnell:
Yeah. I'd say developing the leaders is the purpose of what we do. That's why we exist. But also in 2027, we want to see local voter guides being created out of government classrooms. I want to see one in every state, in all 50 states next year. Over the long, long term though, the people got to be co-equals with our government. And we ought to be the fourth branch of government. My long-term is I want to see this little tri-legged stool that we call our government into a real table with four legs and we the people are that leg. We deserve as much say as these people because we pay every single dime of their salary.
Alex Lovit:
Well, thank you. That's inspirational and y'all give me hope for the future of this country. Kevin, Robert, and Destiny, thank you for joining me on The Context.
Kevin O'Donnell:
Thank you.
Destiny Brown:
Thank you.
Robert Mackey, II:
Thank you, Alex.
Alex Lovit:
This episode focused on Dayton. But wherever you are, local government and citizen participation matter. And if we're going to rebuild American democracy, we're going to need a lot more people like Kevin, Robert, and Destiny. Visit kettering.org to learn more about them and the great work that they and all the other Dayton Democracy fellows do.
The Context is a production of the Charles F. Kettering Foundation. Our producers are George Drake Jr. and Emily Vaughn. Melinda Gilmore is our director of communications. The rest of our team includes Jamaal Bell, Tayo Clyburn, Jasmine Olaore, and Darla Minnich. We'll be back in two weeks with another conversation about democracy. In the meantime, visit our website, kettering.org, to learn more about the foundation or to sign up for our newsletter. If you have comments for the show, you can reach us at thecontext@kettering.org. If you like the show, leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts or just tell a friend about us.
I'm Alex Lovit. I'm a senior program officer and historian here at Kettering. Thanks for listening.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guests. They're not the views and opinions of the Kettering Foundation. The foundation's support of this podcast is not an endorsement of its content.
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